THE COUNTY ASSEMBLY OF NAKURU

THE COUNTY ASSEMBLY OF NAKURU

THE COUNTY ASSEMBLY OF NAKURU

helb loan disbursement   - THE HANSARD

The Assembly met at the Assembly
 Buildings at 11.30 am
[The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Samuel Tonui) in the Chair]

PRAYER
MOTION
THAT COUNTY GOVERNMENT ESTABLISH A TWO MILLION SHILLINGS
WARD BURSARY FUND
Hon.Moses Kamau:Mr.Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the Motion;-
 THAT, being aware that the County is home to vulnerable groups such as the orphaned, the marginalized and the poor who have no access to resources to fund their education, noting that these groups risk beingexcluded from accessing formal Education, unless proper mechanisms are put in place, to ensure equitable and fair allocation of bursaries to needy pupils or students, the few available resources may be distributed in a skewed manner.  Acknowledging that elected Members of County Assembly (MCAs) represent the wishes and aspirants of Nakuru residents, thus we urge the County government to;
(i)    Set up ward bursary fund of Kshs 2 million for each ward to assist educating these needy groups

(ii)    Set up ward bursary committees for each ward comprising of ward representative as Patron, the MCA Personal Assistant as the Secretary and other seven members to process all bursary applications. Madam Speaker, I beg to move the Motion.

The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):Who will second the Motion?
 Hon. Eunice Muriithi: Thank you very much; I beg to second the Motion
(Question proposed)
Hon.Joseph Muigai: Mr.Deputy Speaker, sir, I am Muigai, MCA Molo, thank you.  I support the Motion but with an amendment.  I kindly request that the seven members suggested are far too many putting into consideration that they would require some allowances and we would want as much as possible the monies to benefit the targeted groups.  So I support the Motion but with the amendment that I have suggested that we put them to five.
Hon.Peter Mwangi: Thank you Mr.Deputy Speaker, My name is Peter Nderitu Mwangi from Bahati ward.  I would like to support the Motion and oppose any changes to the committee members, considering that specifically Bahati has about seven sub-location and such a fund should be overseen by representatives from the seven sub-location and the Patron and the Secretary should be ex-official members, I beg to support the Motion as it is.Thank you.
Hon. Michael Ngeshu:  Thank you Mr.Deputy Speaker sir, I would like to support the Motion with some amendments, this is a very good and well thought idea by Hon. Moses,and we have many children in the villages that miss out of school because of lack of funds.  I would like to have an amendment made to this Motion.  We are going to set up what we call village committees and the village committees in the wards could be the best unit,whereby we can have a person representing each village in the said bursary committee.  The constitution says that we are going to have what we call the village committees where we are going to have five people from each village to sit in that committee.  I would request we have at least one member from the village, so that we have a representative.
Considering what Mr. Nderitu has said, there are some wards that have many sub-locations like Waseges that has about ten locations so when we talk of seven members, some sub-locations will miss out. My ward has…
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):Point of information allowed
Hon. Moses Kamau: On point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to inform the Hon. Member that we should not go as per the villages.  We know very well as per the County Government Act says that this Assembly is to come up with the said villages which we have not legislated for.  Therefore we cannot speak on something that we don’t have.  It is good to inform the Hon. Member even on how the constituency development fund (CDF)Act.2013 stated, just up to five members per ward.  It is up to the Hon. MCA’s to know where these members will come from by using his knowledge and wisdom.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Thank you Hon.Member.  Point noted.  The bursaries need to be effected by September and if that is the case the village administration would not have been effected.
Hon. Michael Ngeshu:  Thank you Mr.Deputy Speaker, I take note of Hon. Moses’ sentiments but may be in future we need to bring a substantive Motion to amend this so that each and every child is catered for.
The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui): Right, that is when you will come up with the Motion.  But right now let us concentrate on the present Motion.
Hon. Michael Ngeshu:  I support the Motion
Hon. FlorenceNjoroge:Thank you Mr.Deputy Speaker sir, I fully support the Motion by Hon.Moses and to honorable Members, I wish us to look back to the defunct County and Municipal councils where vulnerable children who used to be sponsored by the fund called Local Authority Transfer Fund (LATF) and as we are seated here my concern is these children may still be waiting for the government to come to their aid.  Having given our voters so many promises, one of which was to assist the vulnerable children get education.  The Motion is just right and on time and I support what Hon. Musa has said about the seven committee members where the larger sub-location in our wards will be well represented.  I support the Motion with all my heart and I urge all honorable MCA’s to do so.
Hon. Jonathan Warothe:  Mr.Deputy Speaker, I support the Motion.  It is actually a very prudent idea brought in by one of our members.  But I wish to make some amendments by putting the wordsat least Kshs 2 millionso that it be a minimum of Kshs.2 million to pave some way for improvement in future.  I support the Motion.
Hon. Vitalis Okelo:   Thank you Mr.Deputy Speaker, I wish to support this Motion. I consider this Motion to be an excellent Motion so far but would like to put some amendments because we have a very big deficit in our County and paying allowances to seven committee members would be too much.  I would like to put it at five.  Thank you.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):Thank you, okey!   Point of order
  Hon. John Gicamu: Mheshimiwa Spika, Ningeombakufahamishwanaofisiyakokwambakunamabandirikoimefanywanakamaimeungwamkono?Naombakamahuondioutaratibuambaounafanyikakwasababuingestahilikuungwamkonoalafundioniulizeswali?
TheDeputy Speaker (Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Okay honorable Member, I am recording everything so that I put all the amendments together and put a question to all of them…  Point of order allowed Hon. Muchiri
Hon. Peter Muchiri:On point of order,I am Njoroge Muchiri Subukia MCA.  Mr. Speaker, it is in order to follow procedures of the Assembly. Telling us that you are recording everything is to mix issues.  Whenever a Motion is proposed let it be seconded so that we don’t contradict ourselves.  Thank you.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  I think the Motion has been seconded
Hon. Peter Muchiri:  It was amended and the amendment was to be seconded.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Okay! Order! I think you have to get me right.  There are so many amendments that have come up…Point of Information allowed!
Hon.Stephen Kihara:Thank you Mr.Deputy Speaker, I wish to inform honorable Members that once a Motion has been seconded, we do not have to second an amendment made to that Motion.  All the amendments that are made in the same Motion are compiled together and at the end of the debate, a question is put whether the same Motion is adopted together with the amendments. Thank you
Hon. Stephen Kiarie:  Thank you Mr.Deputy Speaker, I support this Motion but would seek some clarification may be from the Clerk, because on the first page of this Motion the last line says, this House urges the county Government to set up a bursary fund which is okay, but to set up the bursary committee.  Iwould like clarification on the word County government.  What does that mean?
(The Deputy Speaker peruses and reads the said pages)
(After reading)

The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui): Point noted, I think that one mean; when we say the County Government we are all included but I think this is particularly directed to the executive.
I think this is because we are the ones who give the Motions to notify them as the government on what to do. You get me?
Hon. Stephen Kiarie:  Probably Mr.Deputy Speaker, the meaning will come out as we continue with the debate but I am trying to say that it should be very clear as to who is appointing this bursary committee so that there is no ambiguity on some of these statements.  That is my point because when you leave it open it will bring some misunderstanding.
The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Samuel Tonui):Hon.Kiarie, what we are doing here is to debatebecause eventually this Motion will land at the executive side so obliviously we are informing the governor’s side of what need to be done…Point of information allowed
Hon.Stephen Kihara:  I want to concur with Honorable Member for Kihingo that this particular clause is very open and vague.  It leaves a lot of room for manipulation because it does not spell out the criteria of selecting these people in terms of gender, age, disabilities and in terms of regions.
That is why probably the honorable Member is coming out with this.  It is the responsibility of this house to build up on this Motion and ensure that all these grey areas are eliminated.  I would propose we borrow from the CDF ACT 2013 that on the whole event of setting up this bursary committee we have a slot for the mentioned groups, the rest can come from the general public.  That is my feeling and I propose that even as we support this particular Motion, we should make some amendments to actually build onthat clause so that we can have fair representation in that particular committee as we risk being taken to court if we don’t respect the constitutional provisions in terms of the groups I have mentioned.  Thank you.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Thank you, point noted.We have not set the rules of how to select the committee but I think we adopt with amendments and put things on that matter clearly.
Hon.David Malel: Thank you Mr. Speaker, I am in support of the Motion and thank the honorable Member who has brought it. That requires the input of the whole House that we put some things that were left out.  He used his mind and we may also incorporate our minds to his agenda so whatever honorable Steve said, I think we can add so that the value of the whole Motion becomes real.
Mr. Speaker, mine is to say that when something is done at the right time, it has a positive impact.  Apart from this year, we require such funds to be available maybe in January so that they canassist.  So apart from this year, when we can give in August, these funds should be available in January. Thank you.
Hon.Joseph Waithaka:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  I beg to support this Motion and wish to get clarification from the Chair because as much as we are supporting this Motion we have a feeling that so many things have not been captured.  I don’t know whether we should have a bill to specify.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Order! This is not a Bill, it is a Motion!
Hon. Joseph Waithaka: Am seeking clarification from the Chair Mr. Speaker if in future we could have a Bill that is going to specify the modalities of disbursing this money because personally I have a feeling that I may propose an amendment.
The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Point of information allowed
Hon. Moses Kamau:  Thank you Mr. Speaker, I would like to concur and to inform honorable Member that one, this is a Motion and to the whole House that we need to come with a Bill.  We however need to understand after we passed our budget here the other day, we were all anticipating that the money will be channeled as from the 1st July and therefore it is our responsibility to fast track a policy that would guide the County government executive so that they may start generating bursary forms so that we get them during August holidays so that by September we can get bursaries for our students.  Therefore, this motion is intended to guide the County Government executive that we are putting ourselves somewhere while we are bringing a bill so that we can do the necessary and it be the one that has power even to the executive.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Thank you, Hon. Waithaka you can continue
Hon.Joseph Waithaka:  Thank you for the information Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wanted to move an amendment to this Motion Mr.Speaker that it specifies may be 20 percent of the two million shillings should go to the colleges and universities bursaries and 80 percent to go to secondary Schools bursaries Mr. Speaker.  Thank you.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  You say 80 percent?
Hon. Joseph Waithaka: Eighty  percent to go to Secondary schools and 20 percent to go to post-Secondary Institutions i.e. Colleges and Universities so that we can include all sectors of Education as we disburse the bursaries.  Thank you.
Hon. Stephen Kiarie: Thank you Mr.Deputy Speaker.  While still on that point I wanted to suggest that the statement;that each MCA will set up a bursary committee comprising of so and so.  So  that it comes out clearlythat it is the MCA’s who know the members who should sit in those committees because when we say the county government,that is a very open statementand I would like it revised and read;each MCA will set up a bursary committee in his/her ward, Madam Speaker.
The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Point noted…Hon.Mwanjo!
Hon. Peter Muchiri:  Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, My name is Peter Njoroge Muchiri;Mwanjo is a business name so note that. Thank you, I want to concur with my brother, MCA from Kabazi Ward we specify money for Colleges and Secondary Schools but would propose that the colleges’ money should not be less that 40 percent and secondary schools 60 percent.  This is because there are so many Colleges and Universitiesstudents. To add on that is about the committee Mr. Deputy  Speaker…
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Point of information allowed
Hon. Moses Kamau:  Mr.Deputy Speaker, I would like to inform the honorable Member that when we give percentages to secondary schools to note that our wards are not equal I therefore advise that instead of giving percentages, we have those going to Colleges and University get at least Kshs.5, 000 while those going to day secondary schools Kshs.2,000 and those in Boarding Secondary Schools get at least Kshs.5, 000.  If we classify in percentage it would be tricky to some wards.
Hon.Peter Macharia: Thank you very much Mr.Deputy Speaker, I am Hon. Kareu, I want to concur with Hon. Waithaka that the distribution in terms of percentage does not determine how one’s ward is, because in most wards majority are secondary schools students.  There is no ward that has more University students than secondary students and I support Hon. Waithaka that 80 percent should go to secondary schools students and 20 percent to University and College students.  Thank you.
Hon. Peter Muchiri:  As I finish my …
TheDeputy Speaker (Hon. Samuel Tonui):  I think we should allow him to finish what he was contributing before we interrupt him
Hon. Peter Muchiri:  Okay, the reason why I was trying to have a bigger percentage for College money than for secondary schools is because college fees are higher than that of secondary schools but all in all, the ratio would depend on the wards.  Let me concur with Hon. Waithaka that 80 percent is okay with Secondary Schools and 20 percent go to Colleges and Universities.  For the Committee, I feel we should amend and not have a given number because we do not have an Act in our Assembly for a specific number of committee members, so the wards should be given a free hand.
Hon. Newton Wauthi: Thank you Mr.Deputy Speaker, I rise to support the Motion having noted that, especially in my area Rare is Jua Kali where most people are poor and would greatly benefit from this kitty.  I however feel Kshs 2 million should only be the minimum amount and as we progress as a County in revenue collection, the amount should be increased on yearly basis because the County is growing and revenue collection would go up.  Thank you.
Leader of Minority (Hon. Ambale):  Thank you Mr. Speaker, I still think that enactment of a bill or a law governing this Motion would be important and we have agreed that we are just securing through this Motion, a proper procedure to may be stop somebody from doing something that would not go in line with the envisaged spirit.  I want to say that as we are trying to think about numbers as well as percentages of how this money should be distributed, we should leave it open because the distribution would depend on the needy status of the pupils and students and their families.
There are also other bursaries provided by the National government like the district Education loans that goes to high school boarding students.  We also know that day secondary schools fee is subsidized.  Students that go to colleges bare more weight than those in high schools.  So a percentage of 20 or 80 might not give us a true picture of what we want to do on the ground. I am also in support of the amendments that the percentages be determined by the prevailing circumstances in the wards.
Again the Kshs.2 million would not go to bursaries because once we set up the committee, there would also be allowances.  Five percent of that amount should therefore be set aside for administration of the whole exercise.
The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  What is it Steve, What is it? Say it!
Hon.Stephen Kihara: Thank you very much.  I concur with the sentiments by Hon. Ambale.  I want to inform the House that our wards are distinct and unique in their own capacity in terms of population, poverty index, et cetera.
Therefore categorizing the amounts should be left to the discretion of the committee which is in this case well represented by the Patron who will be the MCA for that particular ward.  I propose to leave that prerogative to the discretion of the committee.  Thank you Mr. Speaker
The Deputy Speaker (Hon.     Samuel Tonui): Point of information Hon. Kareu!
Hon. Peter Macharia:  Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, the fact is, most of the boarding school students are usually given bursaries and the Ministry of Education allocates specifically for them.  In terms of colleges and Universities, they depend on higher education loans board (HELB) for loans.  I think this is why Hon. Moses specifically indicated that the bursary should be given directly to those students who are in day schools because they don’t have any allocation.
TheDeputy Speaker (Hon.  Samuel Tonui): Point of information allowed Hon Eunice
Hon. EuniceMuriithi:  Thank you Mr. Speaker, for the day schools, they don’t pay for tuition and the bursaries given for boarding schools are usually given for boarding fees.  There is actually a problem of students from day schools being sent home for school fees which is not supposed to happen and the matter is under discussion.  They should only pay for lunches.  I beg to support this Motion.
On another note, I would like to say that as Hon. Kihara said, bursary allocation should be left to the committees to decide on the modalities.  Thank you very much.
Hon. Joseph Waithaka: Madam Speaker…
(Laughter)
The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Samuel Tonui): Apologize!
Hon. Joseph Waithaka: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I withdraw and apologize Madam Speaker.
(Prolonged laughter)

The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Samuel Tonui): Order! Order! Can you please be serious with what you are saying!
Hon. Joseph Waithaka: I am very serious…(Remarkwithdrawn)
 Hon. Stephen Kihara: On point of order,Mr. Deputy Speaker, is it really in order for the Hon. Member from Kabazi to refer to the Speaker as the Chairman? Is it really in order?
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon.  Samuel Tonui):  I think, he is not in order and Hon. Waithaka… you should withdraw
Hon. Joseph Waithaka:  I beg to withdraw Mr. Deputy Speaker.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui): Continue
Hon. Joseph Waithaka: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would also wish to make an amendment to this Motion because I have a feeling that this Kshs 2 million should as well cater for people who are not attending secondary or post-secondary institutions and by this I don’t mean primary schools but members of the communities who dropped out of schools at primary level and are willing to proceed to other areas like tailoring schools and beauty colleges.  Let us make a provision from the bursary kitty Mr. Deputy Speaker.  Thank you.
TheDeputy Speaker (Hon. Samuel Tonui): Yes Hon. Wanango
Hon. Simon Ngigi: Thank you Mr. Speaker.  My name is Simon Wanyoike Ngigi, am not Wanango.  As we discuss on how to distribute the funds, we should set aside a certain percentage for orphans.  Even as we leave it open to the committee to decide, it will not be fair to students who are orphans. I support the Motion but propose that we set aside a certain amount for orphans.Thank you.
Hon. David Malel: Thank you Mr. Speaker.I think it is not in order for the Member to say that we should think of orphans when it was directed that there are orphans and other under privileged persons that need to be catered for by the Kshs.2 million.  He is therefore not in order because he is a member of the committee that is going to disburse this bursary funds and he is in a position to know how to deal with that.
The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Okay, Hon. Malel.  I think what the Hon. Member should say is to have orphans given first priority or they should be fully sponsored because they have no parents. I think that is the best thing to do.
Hon. Joseph Waithaka: Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker.  The issue of bursaries is not new to us and we know even on the application forms, first priority is given to orphans.  The second priority is to a student who has a single parent who is not able to pay and if funds are still sufficient the third category goes to a student who has both parents but we can verify that they are not able to sustain his/her Education.
The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Thank you for that clarification.  It has been noted and members please let us not repeat what has already been said.  If you want to contribute, say something new to save time.
Hon. Michael Ngeshu: Thanks you Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have noted what Hon. Waithaka has said, that this bursary funds should be left open so that it can carter for other institutions of learning like Tailoring schools and hair dressing colleges because some of the youths in the villages would wish to have those skills while some village polytechnics need to be catered for.  I therefore support the amendment by Hon. Waithaka and that by Hon. Kabuu that the minimum should be Kshs 2 million so that this bursary benefits the needy people.
Hon.Peter Muchiri: Mr. Speaker, we need technical advice about the government money which is the bursary. If you talk of other institutions there are those that are private institutions.  We don’t know whether government money can go to private institutions like driving schools.
The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Point of order allowed.
Hon. Joseph Waithaka:  Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker.  I would wish to bring to the attention of the honorable Member that these institutions like the driving schools are fully authorized by thegovernment and I don’t think there is any driving school owned by the government in this country all are owned by individuals who are Kenyan and deserve to benefit.
Hon. Peter Muchiri:  I have no problem with that Mr. Speaker.  All I wanted is clarification from the technical part of it so that we don’t mix issues.  If what my brother Wang’ombe is saying that all institutions are government’s institutions then I have no problem.  But having a clarification from the technical advisors would help the committees and the MCA’s.  Thank you very much.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui): Point of information, Hon. Waithaka!
Hon. Joseph Waithaka:  Madam Speaker… Mr. Speaker, sorry! I apologize, Mr. Speaker, I am used to Madam Speaker…
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Order! Order! It seems you are now doing it intentionally!
Hon. Joseph Waithaka:  Am not, I sincerely apologize.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Just continue…
Hon. Joseph Waithaka:  I sincerely apologize Mr. Speaker, let me note that as much as we say we are going to award this money to private institutions, it is true we don’t have private students but we must be specific that the institutions that will have some of their students awarded money must be registered with the relevant Ministries otherwise we shall fund many backdoor computer colleges offering certificates that are not recognized anywhere.  They must make sure that the institution is registered with the relevant ministries.  Thank you.
The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  I think that is a correct point of information, Hon. Kabuu!
Hon.Newton Wauthi:  Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I want to inform Honorable Members that, private schools are catered for in the ministry of Education bursary.  Am one of the committee members in Njoro District and needy students are given Kshs.8, 000
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui): Point of information! You said you are not Wanango? Who are you?
(Applause)
Hon. Simon Ngigi: I am Wanyoike, Mr. Speaker; I think it is not in order for Hon Kabuu to mislead this House.  Government money does not go to private schools.
The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Samuel Tonui):  It is true
Hon. Peter Mwangi:  Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker.  The main purpose of the fund is to help the needy at grassroots level.  And it is in the wisdom of the Committee Members to interrogate every situation that comes before them.  If one has a needy student who was sponsored to a private college by a sponsor and one year to finish, the sponsor withdraws, what happens to the student?  He goes home and loses on the three years.  In such a case the ward committee should see such a student get through with his Education because he is a needy case.  I think this debate should be left to the wisdom of the committee to interrogate every situation and come up with a solution. Thank you Mr. Speaker
The Deputy Speaker(Hon.Samuel Tonui):  Thank you very much.  Hon Waseges…what is your name?
Hon. Peter Kang’ethe: Am Peter Kang’ethe, thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to concur with most Hon. Members that we should leave this to the discretion of the committee members from respective wards.  Just to note an example, the day before yesterday there was a boy who had dropped out of a public school and had over 400 marks in KCPE.  I took him to St. Francis Mission School that accepted him. Therefore awarding bursaries to needy cases regardless of where they attend school is quite in order.  Thank you.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon.Samuel Tonui):  Thank you.  HonorableMembers… point of information from the mover of the Motion.
Hon. Moses Kamau:  Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir. There was a percentage that was set aside for administrative cost to the committee and one honorable Member suggested we have five percent which if we calculate comes to 100,000 shillings.  I disagree we have some amount set aside for this purpose but feel 5 percent is on the higher side and we shouldtherefore bring it down to 2.5 percent which is 50,000 shillings.  At the same time to control the bursary committee meetings to at least three per every financial year as per the three terms in a school calendar.  I also concurwith those who said that the committee to have two men, two women, two youth and one person with disability that come to seven.
At the same time Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, we have on our bursary budget of financial year 2013/ 2014, Kshs10 million, which I propose we call it equalization bursary fund for the executive that is not appearing on our Motion today.  It should be included that the Kshs10 million we have for bursary fund in our budget to be known as equalization bursary fund, so that it can also appear there. I therefore agree with those who said that on the Motion, you can see there is no Chairperson to that committee.  We say, during the first sitting of that committee, they elect a Chairperson from within themselves.  I beg to rest my contribution there, Mr. Speaker Sir.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):Thank you. Hon. Kihara!
Hon.Stephen Kihara:  Thank you Mr. Speaker.  What has caught my attention is honorable member’slast statement that in the first meeting of the committee they should elect a Chairperson.
In my opinion, I would propose that in that very first meeting, an office should be set up in terms of office bearers.  That is the Chairperson, vice Chairperson and others as opposed to having just the Chairperson who cannot transact business single handedly.  Thank you.
 TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Point of information allowed
Hon. Moses Kamau: Thank you, I agree with the honorable member to have a full office in the first sitting but we had suggested in the Motion that our personal assistants (Pas) to be secretaries to the committees.  Mr. Speaker Sir, I would also request your office to hasten in giving us an okay to have those personal assistants (PAs) in our offices so that when the committees come into place they will take over as secretaries.
At the same time, if we elect the treasurers we shall bring conflicts because if cheques go out and the MCA is the Patron to that committee, it is the mandate of the Patron or the secretary to distribute the cheques for his or her political mileage.
Hon. Joseph Langat:  Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir.  I support the Motion.  It is a noble Motion and I support it with some amendments.We should have criteria of how somebody can get these funds.  First theapplicant has to qualify.  We must have a team to assess the applicant right from home.Some applicants require uniforms, shoes, etc. As for committee, we should set standards and have people who would administer this effectively.  We must have an accountant so that the funds are not misused.  The other thing is, we must have a balance committee in terms of gender, youth and people with disabilities and increase the money to Kshs. 3million.  Thank you so much.
The Deputy Speaker(Hon.Samuel Tonui):  Thank you very much Members. I think I will give two people to wind up. Hon. Warothe you had your point of what? Or it has been overtaken by events?!
Hon.Newton Wauthi:  Is honorable Steve in order to say that he has not finished yet he finished and got seated? Is he in order?
The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  He got seated when there was a point of order. So you can give him time to finish. One minute!
Hon. Stephen Kihara: Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will be very brief,I would like you to understand I stood on a point of information.  Nevertheless Mr. Speaker, as I was proposing that the committee should have an office, I was thinking of how this money is going to be disbursed from the County Government, in what form?Is this Committee going to have an account of its own?  Becausein that case then, the account must have signatories and one of them must be the Patron and probably the secretary or the treasurer as a co-signatory. I would like this honorable House to think of the process of how that money is going to get into their hands from the County Government. Is it going to come directly from the County Government, from the executive side to the students or schools whereby we shall have the role of dishing out cheques or is it going to come to us we disburse it? In that case it is prudent for this honorable house to think of the logistics, thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Point noted.  Now one person…MCA for Molo and please mention your name when you stand.
Hon. Joseph Muigai:  Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker; I am Ngugi Muigai from Molo Ward.  I think the same channel that the county government channels money to the Sub-counties would be the same that would be used to channel the bursary fund or Development Fund for the wards in which case I think the Sub-County Treasurer orAccountant becomes a signatory, alongside other signatories who might he determined by this committee.Thank you.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  Members, I think there is a way of channeling the money as per the law.  I don’t want to say much.  Maybe Hon. Warothe you can say something and I put the Motion to question.
Hon. Jonathan Warothe: Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker.  The first point of information is to the mover of the Motion.  Basically when we are debating, after the debate, the mover of the Motion is given an opportunity to respond and also what you are supposed to do is when members are contributing is to take note because at the end of it you are given an opportunity to respond to what members are contributing other than interjecting every now and then.  The other issue is that when we are moving this Motion and when we are coming up with the policies of the house, let us not creates bureaucracy that is too tedious.  There is a proposal by a member that we need an accountant, for what? Two million shillings is just too little.  Let us keep in mind that we have other departments of the County Government that would work hand in hand with the Ward Committees.
Hon.Joseph Muigai:  Honorable Warothe through the Speaker.I want you to know that I did not create an office of an accountant.  I have only mentioned a structure through which the finances are channeled to Sub-Counties in which all MCAs come from.  So in any way a County Accountant or the treasurer just like the District Development Officers are signatories to the CDF money probably could be signatories to the Bursary Fund.  Thank you Mr.  Deputy Speaker Sir.
TheDeputy Speaker (Hon. Samuel Tonui):  I think Member, you are not the one Warothe was speaking about because what I heard, you said everything has been taken care of by the constitution and there is a flow but there was another member who said that the office should be set up which meant Treasurer, Chairman and others.
Hon. Jonathan Warothe:  Am not yet through Mr. Deputy Speaker.I was interrupted before I finished. I think what should happen even with the County Government, on the Executive side, we have the department of Social Services and the department of financeat the two levels which shouldidentify the needy cases and ensure that there is equity in distribution of this money.  I think that should be the role of the committee but we go on creating the office of Treasurer, Accountant to manage two million shillings, how much will remain for the beneficiaries?  Mr. Speaker, I beg the House that we make rules, regulations and policies that would not be very punitive to our people. Thank you very much.
TheDeputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui): Thank you very much Members, we have discussed the Motion and captured so many things but as we discussed and contributed I have realized there are so many amendments.  I think we should adopt them and then we amend the Motion as per what we have just said.                                                    
(Question put and agreed to)

ADJOURNMENT
The Deputy Speaker(Hon. Samuel Tonui):  We adjourn until 2.30 pm. Thank you
The Assembly rose at 12.30pm


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